tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19408862.post4921738923255936339..comments2023-10-29T04:36:52.733-05:00Comments on elle, phd: Nothing's New under the Sunellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01867952598756889997noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19408862.post-457062746246989612008-10-24T10:41:00.000-05:002008-10-24T10:41:00.000-05:00Great post! And this: " If being American is being...Great post! And this: " If being American is being white, then there is little difference between being anti-American and anti-white." What a perfectly succinct way to put it. Like Toni Morrison wrote, "American means white." <BR/><BR/>Co-sign what mommy to ander said. Beware the moderates.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19408862.post-80986372110192460372008-10-23T14:21:00.000-05:002008-10-23T14:21:00.000-05:00elle, thanks as always for the historical perspect...elle, thanks as always for the historical perspective.<BR/><BR/>The conflict has always been (will always be) about what is an American. What does that word mean? Even further back than you mention--from the antebellum period when abolitionists were criticizing the South for espousing ideas of republicanism and liberty but blatantly denying the same to its black population. And of course through Jim Crow. Accordingly, what an American is has always ended up resting at the black community's feet. More than any other population, not because others (Asian, Latin@, Eastern European, Jewish) communities weren't important as they entered the conversation but because the conversation, the rhetoric is literally very black and white. And it is difficult in the U.S. to think outside of that.<BR/><BR/>And there are always silences in the debate. Abolitionists were advocating anti-slavery from a North that was anti-suffrage, equal education, and pro residential and job discrimination. <BR/><BR/>Maybe there is a way to think through white reactions to Obama in that kind of context. So these whites who are slipping away as fast as post-Civil War Republicans did after Hayes-Tilden, as fast as the white working class did after securing home ownership in the 60s, as fast as white liberals did after deseg in the 70s...maybe there is a lesson to be learned (FAST!) about how to speak with them about what it means to be an American? That my rights do not make yours null and void? That our histories really come out of the same place, a place searching for equality, safety and justice--even when those terms meant different things. <BR/><BR/>Is there a way to get at a common definition that we haven't been able to get to before and prevent history from repeating itself again?<BR/><BR/>(Of course, if it does, the other lesson of history is that it is cyclical, and new days bring new challenges but new opportunities and triumphs too...)Kismet Nuñezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17605124277457374528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19408862.post-54601411284716489512008-10-23T11:32:00.000-05:002008-10-23T11:32:00.000-05:00Elle- you describe it all perfectly. Blacks have a...Elle- you describe it all perfectly. Blacks have always been marginalized as other, and our patriotism has always been questioned. I just can't imagine how it is rational or logical in peoples minds to think a man running for president of this country - and putting his own life at risk I might add - is not patriotic and does not love this country. But this mode of thinking doesn't have to be rationalized, it's just part of the cloth - it's engrained and socialized in these people's minds. <BR/><BR/>And Mommy to Anders, I agree. The ones who aren't out in the open with their racism scare me as much as the openly vicious ones.Kimberlyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16419883493806890506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19408862.post-5147131311387412042008-10-23T10:49:00.000-05:002008-10-23T10:49:00.000-05:00No, no, no. I disagree completely.It is NOT the s...No, no, no. I disagree completely.<BR/><BR/>It is NOT the same old game.<BR/><BR/>It is a MUCH worse game. This time, it's harder to notice it happening. This time, I know tons of well-meaning white people - who would never knowingly and intelligently vote based on racism - who are voting against Obama. <BR/><BR/>These are the same people who work in inner city schools without fear. These are the same people that contribute to campaigns of people of all races. These are people who would have explained, in the 70s, about how race doesn't matter. These are good people, and they are slipping in to the McCain racism net.<BR/><BR/>Now THAT is very scary.Giftie Etceterahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11353862141419399333noreply@blogger.com